Trying to find information on a town in northern Greece, between Kilkis and Thessaloniki, called Strezovo in Slavic and apparently Argiroupolis in Greek (it’s not on my most detailed map of Greece, and there are several other towns of that name, including a fairly well known one in Crete, so it’s a frustrating thing to google), I happened on an apparent Wikipedia entry in a language I couldn’t recognize at all. I went to the home page and found no enlightenment there; I did notice, though, that it wasn’t actually part of Wikipedia (even though the layout is identical): the URL has wikigadugi.org in it. So I googled “gadugi” and found a Wikipedia entry (real this time) explaining that “Ga-du-gi is a term used in the Cherokee language which means ‘working together’ in a community sense.” Cherokee! Damn, and I’m even part Cherokee myself; I’ve really got to work on my Native American language awareness. And there’s a Cherokee Wikipedia out there, with a long article on Gjirokastër of all places! What a wonderful world!
(Needless to say, I will be grateful for any concrete information on Strezovo/Argiroupolis, especially if it helps me locate it on my map.)
WIKIGADUGI.
February 8, 2007 by 24 Comments
That Cherokee is coming out of an automatic translator, at least in part. Look at a list of names, such as those for the Nobel Prize in Physics. A number of the names, including those that are meaningful words but not just those, are being turned into Cherokee words.
Sometimes brute force is best.
If you go to mapquest, then to outside the US, and look up Kilkis, Greece, you’ll see Argiroupoli as the first town to the east of it.
If you look through the Cherokee Wikipedia, it must have been translated, because just about every article has a) an English name and b) is just as comprehensive as the English article, and far more comprehensive than languages such as German, Japanese, and Polish despite a very, VERY small number of speakers in comparison. Either it’s gibberish or translated (which would make it partially gibberish).
There is an real Cherokee wikipedia. The Cherokee “wikigadugi” seems to be a mere transcription in latin characters of the other.
I’m surprised that hat didn’t recognize the famous picture of Sequoyah which kind of gave the game away. Also I’ve got a Cherokee textbook kicking around somewhere that used the same (or close to it) transliteration of the Cherokee syllabary.
Not to mention: how many languages use “v” as a vowel?
Thanks, all! I should have realized something fishy was going on. But why would anyone go to the trouble of setting up a whole site for automatic translation of English articles into Cherokee?
how many languages use “v” as a vowel?
Like I said, I’ve got to get more familiar with Amerind languages, so I’ll recognize things like that.
you’ll see Argiroupoli as the first town to the east of it
And so I did (halfway to Koronouda, which was on my map). For this relief much thanks!
Not long ago I googled the language I’m researching, Wagiman, and besides coming across a post of yours, LH, from a few years ago (which was interesting), I came across a wordlist from the Wagiman language in the Latin version of wikipedia. It only contained four or five words and I have no idea where they came from and the translation was most likely automated, but it was surreal nonetheless.
“Not to mention: how many languages use “v” as a vowel?”
I only know for sure of Creek, where v = /a/ (short), vs long a /a:/.
IIRC in Cherokee transliteration, v is used for (roughly) /a~/ or where ~ indicates nasalization.
I think either v (greek ypsilon) was used for short /a/ in Choctaw too at one time though it isn’t anymore.
Outside the US SEast I’ve also seen v used in ad hoc romanized Mongolian for the high front rounded vowel (u-umlaut). Though that might have something to do with the Cyrillic equivalent which it looks a little like.
Oh, and I think it was once used in a Mexican language, maybe Otomi, though it isn’t anymore.
What exactly is your interest about Argiroupoli? I live in Kilkis, near to the village you are searching for and i can provide you information if you are looking for something specific.
e.g. sorry if my english is not too good…
Ευχαριστώ, nounoukos! I just saw it mentioned in a book and wanted to know where it was, but I’m reading a lot about the Thessaloniki region, so I’m glad to know you’re there if I have other questions to ask. (And your English is fine — far better than my Greek!)
Jangari: The Latin Wiktionary has an Australian contributor who occasionally adds information on Australian languages (thus we have entries from Awabakal to Yanyuwa). The entries are not translated, and in some cases are actually more detailed than their English Wiktionary counterparts.
Well Muke, let me reiterate: How surreal.
If the contributor that likes to contribute to pages about Australian languages in Latin would like to expand the list, direct them to the online dictionary.
It isn’t Nick Evans is it? That old polyglot!
There are a number of Latinists in the Singapore / Sarawk / Australian Outback area. Claire Bowen of Anggargoon used to post here, and she’s an Australianist by trade.
My theory is that classicists are unemployable in civilized countries and must scratch for survival wherever they can.
Outside the US SEast I’ve also seen v used in ad hoc romanized Mongolian for the high front rounded vowel (u-umlaut). Though that might have something to do with the Cyrillic equivalent which it looks a little like.
I’ve also seen it in non-romanized Mongolian when the Cyrillic letter is not available. In these cases the Mongolians also use the Ukrainian letter Єє instead of Өө (the other front rounded vowel).
Very rarely v also occurs in Pinyin when ü is not available.
Found a Mongolian page which does that (in the main text, not in the ads around it).
I’ve also seen v used in ad hoc romanized Mongolian for the high front rounded vowel (u-umlaut).
In Chinese pinyin input, v is also used for ‘u umlaut’.
So I googled “gadugi” and found a Wikipedia entry (real this time) explaining that “Ga-du-gi is a term used in the Cherokee language which means ‘working together’ in a community sense.” Cherokee! Damn, and I’m even part Cherokee myself.
sO! = ga-du-gi means cooperative labor (involving a community).
Example:
w@! _1`, sO! lh#C8#CS a%Bf!.
Gohigi jigesv, gadugi danalsdelisgv Anijalagi.
Long ago, Cherokees helped each other through cooperative labor.
Note: “v” is pronounced as “u” in but, nasalized.
In order to make above sentence visible you have to download and install a Cherokee font: http://babel.uoregon.edu/yamada/fonts/cherokee.html
Indeed, the endonym for ‘Creek’ is nowadays transliterated Mvskoke. More traditionally it was Muscogee (where the Okies come from, or at least the ones in the song).
et al..
Wikigadugi has disappeared. And literary Mongolian does not have rounded front vowels.
Now there’s a sequence of a dozen words that couldn’t have been predicted.
Well, after the first 11 I could easily predict the 12th.
True. But given the last 11 you couldn’t have predicted the first.