OLD SLAVIC ONLINE.

I just discovered (by looking down the long list of languages at the left of the Thessaloniki article) that there’s an Old Slavic Wikipedia (the discussion page, in Russian, sternly warns against confusing Old Slavic with “a ghastly blend of languages and personal fantasy”). From there I got to Cтарославянские памятники, a great collection of Old Slavic links; somebody will probably inform me that I already blogged it back in 2003, but I figure if I’ve forgotten it, maybe others have too.
Incidentally, I note the Russian Wikipedia article on Salonica/Thessaloniki, which Russian treats as a plural Салоники (the Greek feminine ending being reinterpreted as plural), uses the endingless genitive Салоник, whereas my 1984 Словарь ударений gives Салоников; what do my Russian-speaking readers prefer?

Comments

  1. It looks like the latter variant treats the foreign geographical name as if it was a relative Russian one with the same ending.
    “Иностранные имена собственные на письме не изменяются”, что теоретически должно относиться к окончаниям тоже. Но тут же пришли в головы многочисленные примеры обратных случаев; думаю так много исключений из правила не бывает. Вероятно, я пропустила какое-то условие для вышеприведённого.
    Was looking for some link to back me up, didn’t find anything clarifying, but found this one; you might find it interesting.

  2. I did indeed; thanks!

  3. If it weren’t for ghastly blends of language and personal fantasy, there’d be hardly any Wikipedia at all, in any language.

  4. unreal_undead says:

    “Салоников” looks more natural to me, though I’m not sure it is correct.

  5. Would anyone like to rename Athens to Athen? :)

  6. Oops, I mistook the opposition by gender for opposition by number. The feminine Салоник sounds more natural.

  7. “Would anyone like to rename Athens to Athen?”
    In ancient and medieval Greek, many city names are formally plural. Athens happens to be one of the plural ones, like Thebes or Philippi. Thessalonike isn’t, like Sparta or Constantinople. :-)
    So the s of Athens is a historical relic, probably via the medieval French Satines for Athens. (The s- is the same addition that occurs in Is-tanbul.)

  8. David Marjanović says:

    Would anyone like to rename Athens to Athen?
    That’s its name in German. (Must come directly from the Latin by dropping the final vowel, though.)
    (The s- is the same addition that occurs in Is-tanbul.)
    Last I’ve read that one was interpreted as the attested Medieval form η Κονστάντινου πόλις (I hope I’ve spelled that right).

  9. Come to think of it, Polish, Czech and Slovak treat Thessaloniki as a plural, too and use “Tesaloník/Tesalonik” as Gen. plural. As far as I can tell, “Thessalonikov” is only used in Slovenian.
    David,
    interesting. So not εις την πόλιν?

  10. For me it is like Helsinki:)
    I.e. Салоник
    Кстати, Словарь ударений 2001 года уже так и рекомендует: http://dic.gramota.ru/search.php?word=%D1%E0%EB%EE%ED%E8%EA%E8&lop=x&gorb=x&efr=x&zar=x&ag=x&ab=x&lv=x&pe=x&az=x

  11. David Marjanović says:

    David,
    interesting. So not εις την πόλιν?

    Apparently not. Though it would doubtless help if I could remember the source. Hm. Somewhere online, in some ad hoc transcription (Googling for the Greek does not work).
    About the other city… are the Serbs alone in sticking with Солун? Have they just had the loudest nationalists in the 19th century?

  12. are the Serbs alone in sticking with Солун
    No, we do as well. Even sports clubs like Iraklis are referred to as “Iraklis Solún” in Slovak.

  13. All I can add is, Байрон умер в Миссолунгах. I would probably say Салоников but I’m even more in favor of the OCS Солунь. No one would have to guess where Кирилл Солунский hailed from, then.

  14. As far as I can tell, “Thessalonikov” is only used in Slovenian.
    This would be the correct genitive if we used “Thessaloniki” (plural) in the nominative. But we normally call that town “Solun” (singular), and the genitive is thus “Soluna”.

  15. Pete Kersten says:

    Sounds like a tempest in a tea pot. All one needs to do it look at a Russian language map of Greece to answer the question. Just for fun, let’s argue about the capital of Russia. The Russians say Moskva but everyone else says Moscow. Blame the Germans hired by Peter the Great in the 1700′s.

  16. All one needs to do it look at a Russian language map of Greece to answer the question.
    I’m afraid you haven’t understood the question, which is not “What is the Russian name for Thessaloniki?” but “What is the genitive of that name?”—something no map will tell you, and (as you can see from replies above) is not clear to Russians either.
    The word Moscow is not due to Germans (it long predates Peter the Great); actually, it’s interesting enough I think I’ll blog it separately.

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