I always enjoy limericks and have posted about them before (e.g., here); now, courtesy of Mark Liberman at the Log, I bring you Stephen Goranson’s suggestion as to the origin of the name:
Might the English verse form have gotten its Irish name in America? Maybe, maybe not, but consider the entry on Limerick in the Historical Dictionary of American Slang (Jonathan Lighter, editor). “Come to Limerick”–only in American slang–used to mean, more or less, to settle, to come to terms. Members of the American Dialect Society discussion list added to the three examples given in the Dictionary. They range in date from 1859 to about the end of the century. The first uses mostly relate to the looming and then raging U.S. Civil War; they later referred to more diverse put-up-or-shut-up situations. (More details to come in the comments, if interested.) There were many “Limericks” published then in America. I suggest the reference was to the end of the earlier Irish Civil War that was partly concluded with the Treaty of Limerick.
The OED quotes J. H. Murray–not to be confused with J. A. H. Murray, the OED editor (proof available on request)–in 1898 writing in Notes & Queries that Limericks were offered at convivial parties with the “come [up] to Limerick” chorus sung as a challenge for a new verse: in effect, offer another new one or surrender.
Admittedly, the above does not prove an American origin of the name. But here’s another hint that the name did not refer to poets literally and literarily from Limerick, having left, as the Treaty allowed, in the Jacobite “Flight of the Wild Geese” to France. In 1881 the Church of England Bishop of Limerick, who was also a poet (and relative of author Robert Graves), received an honorary degree from Oxford. This is recounted by his son, also named Charles Graves, in “The Cult of the Limerick,” Cornhill Magazine, Feb 1918, 158-66 (here 158):
“…he [the Bishop, in June, 1881] was greeted in the Sheldonian by cries of “Won’t you come up, come up, Won’t you come up to Limerick town?”–which we believe to be the correct form of the refrain. But the reason for the connection of the City of the Violated Treaty with this particular form of pasquinade remains, as Stevenson said of the young penny-whistler, ‘occult from observation.'”
(I have added the italics.) There is, of course, good stuff in the comments.
I know you are a great believer in literal quotation, but srsly, the sentence “In 1881 the Church of England Bishop of Limerick, who was also a poet (and relative of author Robert Graves), received an honorary degree from Oxford” would make a whole lot more sense if the words “Charles Graves” were inserted in square brackets after “In 1881”.
I agree, loooks a bit garden-pathy.
BTW, any relation to John T. Graves, the discoverer of the octonions? [EDIT: brother of both, apparently.]
Octonions are very much a solution in search of a problem.
Not at all: octonions are routinely used by game programmers to represent and transform the orientation of an object.
Not at all: octonions are routinely used by game programmers to represent and transform the orientation of an object.
Pretty sure that’s just quaternions, sorry.
I don’t think there’s anything out there that really needs the full might of the octonions (and isn’t itself just as useless).
I use octonions in my French onion soup. Good recipe too – serves oct!
The fact that they are non-associative makes the octonions inapt for most situations.
There never was a Church of England Bishop of Limerick. Charles Graves was Bishop of Limerick in the United Church of England and Ireland from 1866 to 1870 and in the Church of Ireland from 1871 to 1899.
That’s nothing. I have been known to refer to the American Episcopal Church as the Church of England when speaking to a visiting Irishman.
This new book, The Limerick: a History: 1820-1920 (Jefferson, North Carolina: McFarland & Co., 2024) collects many limericks, along with discussion and literature references, all presented by Bob Turvey, who is himself an accomplished limerick writer.
As a history book, though, it leaves something to be desired, because it, among three specified things, does “not address the question of why limericks are called limericks” (page 8). In the 1820s, these “nonsense verses” were not yet known as limericks.
During the American Civil War, the phrase “come to Limerick” meant to settle, to come to terms. This was a reference back to the earlier Irish Civil War; that was settled, or attempted to be settled, by the Treaty of Limerick in 1691. And there is evidence of one of these five-line poems in America in 1880 being associated with the tune “won’t you come to Limerick.”
You can’t have a book called The Limerick: A History without addressing the question of why limericks are called limericks!
You most certainly can have such a book omitting the why regarding the name … and this excellent book is proof itself. We don’t have to know that Winston Churchil was named after his father’s dog to enjoy a tome on his politcal derring-do (I made that bit up). Dr Bob Turvey has spent 30 years researching limericks and he should be applauded, not criticised, for a work that takes us a lot closer to the truth. In it he provided many previously unknown routes for further research for which we should be grateful. As he explains in the book, it was a considered decision to leave this part out; due to a request from his publisher and that (commercially sensibly?) there is another book on that topic in preparation. Many other limerick books have dabbled with the question, but most of them have been inaccurate or just plain wrong (though their authors too may be forgiven for that and not having the internet to play on). I am happy to wait for a well-researched book on the origins of the name and I trust Bob to deliver it as well as anyone. We’re all pulling in the same general direction, so I for one am keen to encourage. I recommend buying a copy!
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=limerick+turvey&s=price-asc-rank&crid=14IZUGE99KI9T&qid=1728402446&sprefix=limerick+turvey%2Caps%2C243&ref=sr_st_price-asc-rank&ds=v1%3AIMIVxm1o%2B920z7OOEJcHQ2cCgFnX%2FlfwvzvNXwewJdc
Cheers, Doug (proprietor of the as-yet embryonic Museum of Limerick Verse).
You’re right, of course — I was just being a wiseacre. Thanks for the further information!
Cheers, Doug (proprietor of the as-yet embryonic Museum of Limerick Verse).
I think I see where you’re going with that name.
Of limericks, good, bad, and worse,
There’s knowledge galore to disperse
At the all-electronic,
As yet embryonic:
Museum of Limerick Verse.
It belatedly occurs to me that some museums contain bricks and mortar. If yours will be of that type, kindly change “all” to “non”. If it will be of both types, further research is required.
I am not urging readers to avoid the book, myself owning the ebook as well as the paperback, both, by the way, reasonably priced. Many libraries would do well to have it.
But, regardless whether it was the publisher or the author who decided to avoid the etymology of “limerick”–as well as any “in-depth analysis of what a limerick actually is” (page 9)–I find those decisions, for a book with History in the title, unfortunate.