Sara’s Family.

From John Cowan:

1. La famille de Sara est d’origine italienne.
2. La famiglia di Sara è di origine italiana.
3. La familia de Sara es de origen italiano.
4. A família de Sara é de origem italiana.
5. La famiya de Sara es de orijin italyana.
6. A familia de Sara é de orixe italiana.
7. A familia de Sara ye d’orixen italiano.
8. La família de Sara és d’origen italià.
9. La familha de Sara es d’origina italiana.
10. A famiglia di Sara hè di origine italiana.
11. Sa famìlia de Sara est de orìgine italiana.
12. Familia Sarei este de origine italiană.
13. Familia Sarae originis italicae est.

JC adds: “Some are easy, some quite tough, at least for me.” I got 1-4, 8, and 12-13 at first glance; the rest are tougher.

Added later:

14. La familio de Sara estas de itala origino.
15. La famiglia da Sara è d’origin talian.
16. Familia de Sara esse origine de Italia.

Addendum. It’s probably best to assume there will be spoilers in the comments, if you don’t want any help figuring it out.

Comments

  1. Why is origin feminine in most languages above but masculine in Spanish and whatever no. 7 is? I don’t know any Latin but presumably ‘origin’ is feminine.

    Very grateful for your elucidations.

  2. Good question. I’m going to assume plain old analogy — if it ends in a consonant, it looks like it might be masculine — but maybe somebody knows more. (It’s also masculine in 8.)

  3. I’m going to give it a try:

    1. French
    2. Italian
    3. Spanish
    4. Portuguese
    5. Ladino?
    6. Galician
    7. Asturian
    8. Catalan
    9. Occitan?
    10. ??
    11. Sardinian?
    12. Romanian?
    13. Latin

  4. David Eddyshaw says:

    1-4 as above (the easy ones); I agree 8 is Catalan; 12 is indeed Romanian, 13 Latin. Galician is said to be like Portuguese (according to the only speaker I know) so I expect J is right about 6 too.

    11 has to be Sard because of the article. No idea about the others.

  5. Trond Engen says:

    I immediately took 1-3 and 13. Then I put Romanian on 12 for being different and Portuguese on 4 for the -m. Galician followed on 6 for the same reason as David and Occitan on 9 for the sequence -lh-. Then I guessed Catalan on 8 for the -à, 7 is obviously close to Galician/Portuguese on the Spanish side, but I couldn’t guess which intermediate dialect or colonial variety it might be. 10 is somewhere in the Italian sub-continuum, and not far from the Toscan center. Corsican? I had no idea what to make out of 5 or 11.

  6. David Marjanović says:

    I’m pretty sure origo is masculine, but that’s highly irregular in Latin, where almost all other n-stems were feminine: the masculine ones are ordo, sermo, personal names like Cato and Nero, and that’s pretty much it.

    5 has to be Ladino because of the spelling (i.e. Atatürk orthography, like YPG Kurdish) – which incidentally allows us to see the yeísmo.

    I agree that 6 looks more Galician than 7; 7 could well be Asturian.

    10 is some “Italian” “dialect”, not too far north.

    11 is obviously Sardinian: article sa, unreduced est.

  7. Roberto Batisti says:

    Ok, without looking at the comments…:

    1 – French, 2 – Italian, 3 – Spanish, 4 – Portuguese, 5 -Judeo-Spanish (?), 6 – Galician, 7 – ?? (some Ibero-Romance variety I guess), 8 – Catalan, 9 – Occitan, 10 -Corsican??, 11 – Sardinian, 12 – Rumanian, 13 – Latin

  8. Giacomo Ponzetto says:

    Aren’t some of these missing a definite article? Not sure if it’s a rule, but I’m definitely used to hearing that from native speakers of Portuguese (4. A família da Sara) and Catalan (8. La família de la Sara).

    @David: Italian is rather conservative with its genders (un ordine, un sermone) and this seems to work for origin (un’origine) as well: principii autem nulla est origo.

    I have full confidence in the collective reconstruction above (which I wouldn’t have been capable of), but I find the systematic absence of peninsular “Italian dialects” vaguely disturbing.

  9. John Cowan says:

    Well, not surprisingly to anyone who knows the Hattics, everyone’s assertions, conjectures, and approximate conjectures are correct, with the exception of the very difficult #7. In fact it is (mountain) Aragonese, not Asturian, but they are quite similar.

    Some features of Aragonese not shown here include the preservation of Latin /ll/ and (some) intervocalic voiceless stops unchanged. An example of the latter is cleta ‘trellis, hurdle’; cf. Spanish cleda, French claie. I suppose this means this and similar words had irregular gemination at some point. The articles are also curious: they are o/a/os/as as in Portuguese when the preceding word ends in a consonant, but ro/ra/ros/ras when it ends in a vowel (clearcut l/r interchange here).

    Asturian, on the other hand, is the only Western Romance language that has retained three genders in the adjective, ending in -u, -a, -o respectively. However, some neuter nouns take the masculine article, some the feminine: el fierro vieyo/*vieyu, la lleche frío/*fría: semantically they are mass, collective, or abstract nouns. Deadjectival abstracts also have neuter adjective agreement, but take the special article lo, as in Spanish.

    I’m pretty sure origo is masculine

    Wikt, Lewis & Short, and Gaffiot’s Latin/French dictionary all agree that it is feminine, and L & S quote Cicero’s De Re Publica: principii nulla est origo ‘there is no beginning to the beginning’.

    Update: Huh. Giacomo and I quoted the same Latin tag but seemingly drew opposite conclusions from it! Or perhaps I am simply confused.

    Update 2: It would be cool to get 12-13 speakers together, synchronize them with a click track, and get them to pronounce the sentence and then overlay them. (The Latin would have to be rearranged to SVO order, but that would be perfectly grammatical: Caesar is big on SOV, but about 90% of Livy’s sentences are SVO.

  10. As i understand it, Sara is from Slovenia. Or Slovakia

  11. Or Slobbovia.

  12. Finländare says:

    Pff. How good is your ability to recognize Finnic languages?

    1. Sara ema ja isa tulevad Itaaliast.
    2. Saran mutsi ja faija tulee Italiast.
    3. Saran äiti ja isä tulevat Italiasta.
    4. Saran muamo da tuatto tullah Italiaspäi.

  13. David Marjanović says:

    Nullam novi originem!

    1 seems Estonian: lack of vowel harmony, -d.

    2 I have no idea.

    3 is probably (Standard) Finnish.

    4… with ua and -h, is it Karelian?

  14. Lars (not the original one) says:

    @Finländare: I’d say 1 is Estonian, 3 is Finnish, 4 looks like Veps (the one with even more cases). In (2), mutsi and faija look like Germanic loans… and it also seems to have lost subject/verb agreement. Interesting, but I’ve no idea what it could be.

  15. Roberto Batisti says:

    @ Giacomo Ponzetto: you’re right, let’s do one with Italian ‘dialects’! It’s going to be fun (and not much harder for non-experts in Italian dialectology than the Finnic one is for non-Finnologists, I think…).

  16. PlasticPaddy says:

    Re Finnish 2 the phrase mutsi ja faija is used in a song by an artist from what is now kouvala. Alternatively 2 might be Helsinki slang, which substitutes Swedish for familiar terms, according to Wikipedia.

  17. 2. Informal spoken Finnish. I can explain why (if anybody’s interested) but I must admit to cheating.

  18. Trond Engen says:

    Alex K. (if anybody’s interested)

    In this environment it’s usually safe to assume a yes to that. No matter what came before the parenthesis.

  19. Yes, do tell.

  20. De familie van Sara is van Italiaanse afkomst.

  21. about 90% of Livy’s sentences are SVO

    Are you sure about that? I just took a quick look at ab urbe condita and at least the first book is heavily SOV.

  22. I first thought (2) could be Livonian, for purely geographical reasons, but Livonian diacritics is similar to Latvian, not Estonian or Finnish. Bad guess.

    I googled “mutsi ja faija” and – as PlasticPaddy said – there’s this song by a Finnish pop artist. According to Suomen slangisanakirjaa (accessible via dic.academic.ru), mutsi is äiti and faija is isä.

    Now on to the verb. As Lars noted, the subject-verb agreement seems broken: in Finnish, tulee is the third-person singular indicative present form of tulla (“to come”). Now, it’s possible to say mat’ s otsom edet domoy in Russian so perhaps this trick can also work in colloquial Finnish. Also, can the essive Italiasta (from Italy) lose its final -a in fluent speech?

    The answer seems to be yes in both cases. I should have turned to Wikipedia from the start, “Colloquial Finnish” aka Puhekieli. Here are the relevant bits:

    …the third person plural suffix -vat or -vät is not used in the spoken language; instead, the third person singular form is used…

    and

    Particularly in Helsinki, the deletion of some, but not all word-final vowels even beyond /i/ occurs sometimes…

    -sta — -st elative case, “away from the inside of”

    Which, I think, takes care of it all.

  23. Giacomo Ponzetto says:

    @Roberto: I’m afraid I don’t speak any “Italian dialect,” so I cannot help give the peninsula more representation.

    @John: sorry for being opaque. I also meant that origo is feminine in Latin, just like origine is in Italian. It’s an unserious way of recalling Latin genders, but it’s awfully tempting because it succeeds so often … Sure enough, the irregular masculines in Latin also include cardo (un cardine) and margo (un margine).

  24. David Eddyshaw says:

    De familie van Sara is van Italiaanse afkomst.

    Or to put it in a more familiar language:

    Asaaratu yaanam la da yi nɛ Italiya teŋin na.

  25. David Marjanović says:

    mat’ s otsom

    That’s also an option in Basque. (Using the comitative case in -ekin; there’s no word for “with”.)

  26. After getting the same ones as Hat at first glance and then identifying Ladino, Galician, and a couple more Iberian tongues, I was also struck by the relative neglect of Italian “dialects” as well. I also thought Romansh would be a good candidate for such an exercise, but didn’t see anything that looked like it.

    I think a similar exercise with Turkic languages will be much easier than it otherwise would be due to the different spelling conventions adopted by each of them.

  27. 14. La familio de Sarah estas de itala origino.

  28. @John Cowan: Good one! Any reason that it’s Sarah, not Sara?

  29. 15. La famiglia da Sara è d’origin talian.

  30. Roberto Batisti says:

    Actually, a problem with translating this phrase in regional languages is that ‘origin’ wouldn’t really sound right. Such abstract Latinisms are well integrated in the lexicon of the big, standardized national languages, but quite alien to regional varieties. Dialect speakers nowadays would probably produce a superficial adaptation, but that would be an Italianism (in an dialect of Italy; the same may apply mutatis mutandis to other countries/languages), and as such less interesting as an example of the lexical and structural peculiarities of each dialect. In the actual regional varieties it would generally be more natural to say something like “Sara’s family *comes from* Italy”.

    That said, I’ll try to provide a couple of version later…

  31. David Eddyshaw says:

    Quite so: my rendition above is actually “Sara’s forebears came hither from Italy-land.” A more literal rendering would be hopelessly unnatural. As a matter of fact, the Latin version is not at all idiomatic either (and familia does not mean “family”, as JC will of course know very well.)

    The actual concept “family” is more culture-bound than is apparent from a modern Standard Average European perspective.

    [Presumably the real reason that there are no Italian dialect versions is that Sara’s people left all that behind them in the Old Country, and it would not be tactful to remind them of it all.]

  32. David Marjanović says:

    Any reason that it’s Sarah, not Sara?

    It’s actually either Saro or, Zamenhof forbid, Saraho.

  33. Trond Engen says:

    This is essentially a word-by-word comparison. Comparing idiomatic sentences, as in the Finnic examples, is interesting too, but it runs into all sorts of problems of taste, register and nuances of meaning in context — if that’s not the point, as in the Finnic examples.

    I made a similar (but much shorter) list once to show the systematic correspondence of wh-words and some endings of nouns and verbs between the Scandinavian languages, and I had to cheat with both default syntax, idiomatic constructions and lexical meanings to keep the word by word structure.

  34. familia does not mean “family”, as JC will of course know very well

    I think it must have. Classically it meant the slaves of a household (domus, lit. ‘house, mansion’) to the exclusion of the free persons, but to those who did not own slaves, the vast majority, it must have meant ‘household, (extended) family’, just like its Romance descendants.

    It’s actually either Saro or, Zamenhof forbid, Saraho.

    It’s actually quite common to leave proper names alone in both formal and informal Esperanto, unless they are already names with extensive multilingual variation: the 26th U.S. President is not *Teodoro Rozevelto, though the Pope is Fransisko (Unua/1a). A José may be any of Josefo, Jose, Ĥose, José.

    In particular, names in -a are very unlikely to be replaced with -o. Not only is this perceived as misgendering and blurring essential distinctions (what do you do if your family contains both a Mario and a Maria?), but it sounds okay to add the accusative -n to Maria and/or plural -j to -a names, assimilating them morphologically to adjectives, all of which end in -a. Foreign names like those above are treated as indeclinable. (There are, however, gendered diminutive suffixes -ĉjo, njo.)

    Tl;dr: I should have used Sara rather than Sarah above (chalk it up to anglophone habits, though my own sister is Sara), but not Saro, Saraho.

    (By the way, the letter ĥ [x ~ χ] is very rare in E-o and is almost always replaced, even in writing, by something else, usually k; thus Zamenhof’s ĥemio, teĥniko, ĥino became kemio, tekniko, ĉino early on, though ĥaoso is still preferred to kaoso. Only the minimal pairs eĥo/eko ‘echo/beginning’, ĉeĥo/ĉeko ‘Czech/cheque’, and ĥoro/koro/horo ‘chorus/heart/hour’ are universally preserved, though the alternative koroso is not unknown.)

  35. Allan from Iowa says:

    Earlier today I congratulated myself on identifying a person named Firdavs Something-something-ov as being from Tajikistan.

    Then this quiz brought me back down to earth.

  36. By the way, the letter ĥ [x ~ χ] is very rare in E-o and is almost always replaced, even in writing, by something else

    This is the kind of thing that makes me roll my eyes about people who think Esperanto is some kind of ideal/rational language.

  37. 16. Familia de Sara esse origine de Italia.

    I suppose 15 is Venetian; the Brazilian dialect of Venetian (with some koine effects plus of course the Portugese superstrate) spoken in parts of the state of Rio Grande do Sul by those d’ origin talian is called Talian.

  38. 4. Saran muamo da tuatto tullah Italiaspäi.

    http://omamua.ru/

  39. 17. La ffefil di Sara es di *origin di Italia (best guess).

  40. David Marjanović says:

    16. Latino sine flexione.

  41. January First-of-May says:

    By the way, the letter ĥ [x ~ χ] is very rare in E-o and is almost always replaced, even in writing, by something else

    It had been noted that the distinction between /x/ and /h/ is actually fairly rare cross-linguistically, and that Eastern Polish (supposedly including the dialect of Zamenhof’s native area) has both, but Standard Polish had merged them (to /x/, ironically enough).

  42. David Marjanović says:

    No, Vaguely Eastern Polish uses [ɦ] for /g/, just like Ukrainian.

    Loans that have [ɦ] or [h] in the original are spelled with h in Standard Polish, but pronounced with /x/, which is otherwise spelled ch.

  43. Giacomo Ponzetto says:

    @Roberto: I don’t think it’s just origin. Surely John Cowan purposefully picked a sentence composed entirely of abstract words that show minimal variation across Romance languages.

    Try instead something practical and farm-like such as: “His wife left the mushrooms on the windowsill.” I’m immediately in trouble even with the languages I allegedly know. With some hesitation I’d try the following.

    1. Sa femme a laissé les champignons sur le rebord de la fenêtre.
    2. Sua moglie lasciò i funghi sul davanzale.
    3. Su mujer dejó las setas en el alféizar.
    4. A mulher dele deixou os cogumelos no peitoril da janela.
    8. La seva dona va deixar els bolets a l’ampit.
    13. Uxor eius super limen fenestrae fungos liquit.

  44. John Cowan says:

    To be clear, “from John Cowan” means I sent them to the Hat, not that I composed them. I saw them on Quora, but there are several other pre-LH hits. (It also shows up on various blogs that display the current LH post in their sidebars.) So I didn’t choose the words, but I agree they were probably chosen for their Latinate nature.

  45. And

    12. Soția sa a lăsat ciupercile pe pervazul

    I think. I agree – that is a more interesting sentence.

  46. Interestingly, Romanian ciupercă is from Serbo-Croatian печурка (pečurka).

  47. At the end of Volume One of Основы финно-угорского языкознания (Fundamentals of Finno-Ugric Studies) there is an appendix containing short texts in many languages; short exerpts (not error-free) can be seen here:

    http://aluarium.net/forum/thread-156.html

    All three volumes are available here:
    https://vk.com/wall-54326264_355

  48. Nice!

  49. A surprising fact related to the text:

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/repo#Finnish

  50. Randall Cooper says:

    Is there a way to get the definitive answer?

  51. 15 isn’t Venetian, but it is a language that has already been mentioned (although I don’t know how idiomatic it is in that language).

  52. John Cowan says:

    Hat: Could you pull up my #14 and #16 and Jongseong’s #15 to the original post? Thanks.

    What is #15 anyway?

  53. Done (I changed Sarah to Sara per your comment here).

  54. Finnic identification, bonus varieties:
    5. Saran äiree ja isä tulloo Itaaliasta.
    6. Saram muar ja faar tule Italiast.
    (This example is so simple that admittedly it has to rely a fair bit on vocabulary differences on ‘mother’ and ‘father’ rather than more widely recognizable isoglosses.)

  55. Two dialects of Finnish. First is some northern dialect, the second is very Swedish-influenced. Somewhere around Turku/Åbo probably.

  56. John Cowan says:

    Here’s another and much easier list of contrasting sentences from Quora, this time Germanic, and all from one person, Thomas Musselman:

    1) I am the son of my father and my mother.
    2) A am the son o ma faither an ma mither.
    3) Ik bin de soan fan myn heit en myn mem.
    4) Ik ben de zoon van mijn vader en mijn moeder.
    5) Ek is die seun van my pa en my ma.
    6) Ich bin der Sohn meines Vaters und meiner Mutter.
    7) Ikh bin der zun fun mayn foter un mayn muter
    8) Ik bün de Söhn van mien Vader un mien Moder.
    9) I bin da Sohn vo meim Voda und meina Muada.
    10) Ech sinn de Jong vu mengem Papp a menger Mamm.
    11) Jeg er søn af min far og min mor.
    12) Æ er søn af mi fåer og mi muer.
    13) Jeg er sønnen til faren min og moren min.
    14) Jag är son till min far och min mor.
    15) Ég er sonur föður míns og móður minnar.
    16) Eg eri sonur pápa og mammu.

    There was some debate over whether the words for parents in various sentences have the same register as father and mother. In any case, none of the words are borrowed, unlike the “Sara’s family” examples.

  57. I was puzzled by 12 (some Norwegian dialect probably), so I copied to Google Translate hoping for a clue.

    GT identified the language as Danish and translated it as

    “12) I am the son of my sheep and my mice.”

  58. Trond Engen says:

    13) Jeg er sønn av faren min og mora mi.

    17) Eg er son av far min og mor mi.

    Register is definitely an additional issue here. We can also discuss nuances in meaning between ‘sønnen/sonen til’ and ‘sønn/son av’.

    @SFR: 12 does look quite similar to Norwegian dialects, but it’s not.

  59. David Marjanović says:

    The spellings do make it easier…

    2) Scots
    3) West Frisian
    4) Standard Dutch
    5) Afrikaans
    6) Standard German
    7) Yiddish
    8) Generic Low German
    9) Generic Bavarian
    10) Something up Stu’s alley
    11) Standard Danish
    12) One of the more extremely consonant-dropping Danishes
    13) One of the standard Norwegians
    14) Swedish
    15) Icelandic
    16) Faroese

    17) Nynorsk?

  60. Lars Mathiesen says:

    GT identified the language as Danish — un point.

    Some South Jutish (Slesvig) dialect (Æ for jeg is diagnostic) or possibly North-West Jutish (Thy), but it looks inconsistent. By which I mean that words like er, af and og are not pronounced as written in any dialect or standard of Danish, and it would be easier to pinpoint the exact dialect if we had the IPA.

    Also the dialect maps I have don’t show any areas in Denmark that has both of the diphthongizations.

    A æ søn a mi far å min muer might be possible in a small area south of Horsens, and Ja e søn a mi få å min mue in some parts of Funen/Sealand. I think. If the places in question aren’t using til instead of af, and haven’t dropped the three-gender system.

  61. Lars Mathiesen says:

    extremely consonant-dropping Danishes — bog standard loss of suffixed definite article and weakening of second syllables, nothing to see here, don’t block traffic please.

    Third syllables, you ask? Do we look like Greeks or something?

    (A æ å æ ø i æ å).

  62. Trond Engen says:

    13) One of the standard Norwegians

    Bokmål.

    17) Nynorsk?

    Yes.

    Also, with great precaution:

    18) Ig ir son’n åv fåður mien og moður mię.

    19) Iich biin dr Soon va miim Vattr und miine Muättr

  63. David Marjanović says:

    Map of Danish gender and article systems.

    18) Elfdalian.
    19) Swiss(-adjacent) German with particularly consistent monosyllabic vowel lengthening.

    (A æ å æ ø i æ å).

    To 9):
    [aˈɛɪ] “oh, so it is me, after all, conforming to my hopes or cynical expectations”
    [ɪˈɛa] “me too, conforming to your …”
    [aˈɛɪa] “oh, so me, too, after all, conforming to my …”
    [aˈɛɛɐ̯a] “oh, so him, too, after all, conforming to my …”

  64. John Cowan says:

    20) Iċ béo se sunu fæder mínes and módor mínre.

    (Note the “gnomic present” copula and the zero genitives.)

    A æ å æ ø i æ å

    “Oo?” “Ay, oo.” “Aw oo?” “Ay, aw oo”. “Aw a oo?” “Ay, ay, aw a oo!”

  65. John Cowan says:

    There is an album called A æ U å æ ø I æ å, æ I å U å æ ø I æ å? (link to Amazon Music). Here are the individual tracks:

    Strč Prst Skrz Krk
    Khronokrator – Xρονοκράτωρ
    Kroki Na Brzegu
    Lo Berde
    My Safe Town
    Baiduska – Μπαϊντούσκα
    Reis Glorios
    Uşşak Saz Semâisi
    No Me Comas El Celebro
    Mer Tan Itev – Մեր տան իտև
    Hortus Deliciarum 2.0
    Mariola
    Światło Electronic Seeds
    Prelude
    Kara Bahtım Kem Talihim
    Bourrées De La Carrasca De La Vaca 2.0
    Świadomość

    I have heard none of it, but it is obviously Hattic.

  66. Strč Prst Skrz Krk

    Try “Prd krt skrz drn, zprv zhlt hrst zrn”

  67. Or

    Chrt zdrhl z Brd. Vtrhl skrz strž v tvrz srn, v čtvrť Krč. Blb! Prskl, zvrhl smrk, strhl drn, mrskl drn v trs chrp. Zhltl čtvrthrst zrn skrz krk, pln zrn vsrkl hlt z vln. Chrt brkl, mrkl, zmlkl. Zvlhls?

  68. Stu Clayton says:

    No Me Comas El Celebro

    Don’t eat my VIP ?

  69. Lars Mathiesen says:

    A æ u å æ ø i æ å, æ I å u å æ ø i æ å? — in mangled ON (preposing determiners) it would have been something like Ek em úti á inni eyju í inni á, erum it ok úti á inni eyju í inni á?

    So most of the simplification from PG happened more than 1000 years ago. But of course the loss of endings since then also meant that case in nouns, gender in determiners and number and person in verbs had to go — the citation forms of most of the ON words are in fact monosyllabic already.

    (Inn is cognate to E yon, G jener and last I heard, it was considered to be the source of the modern North Germanic definite suffix).

  70. Trond Engen says:

    18) Elfdalian.

    An attempt anyway. I couldn’t find the construction in any of my limited material.

    19) Swiss(-adjacent) German with particularly consistent monosyllabic vowel lengthening.

    Wallissertitsch, picking Lötschertal forms where available, but now that you say it, I probably have too many long vowels. The shortened forms didn’t strike me as anything more than inconsistent spelling in my book of Heitrs und Ärnsts usm Leetschtal.

  71. Trond Engen says:

    (Forgot to italicize the second quote. Sorry.)

    Lars: A æ u å æ ø i æ å, æ I å u å æ ø i æ å? — in mangled ON (preposing determiners) it would have been something like Ek em úti á inni eyju í inni á, erum it ok úti á inni eyju í inni á?

    … but eru yðr “are you (pl./polite)” rather than it “it, that”, I think. Ek em úti á inni eyju í inni á, eru yðr ok úti á inni eyju í inni á?

    And perhaps a closer proto-form would come without case endings. Ek em úti á in ey í in á, eru yð ok úti á in ey í in á?

    Danish weakened unstressed vowels very early. Ek em úte á in ey í in á, ere yð ok úte á in ey í in á?

    … and lenited consonants. Eg em úde á in ey í in á, ere yð og úde á in ey í in á?

    … and monophtongized. Eg em úde å in ø í in å, ere yð og úde å in ø í in å?

    Jutlandic nasalized and denasalized. Eg æ úde å æ ø í æ å, ere yð og úde å æ ø í æ å?

    … apocopized. Eg æ úd å æ ø í æ å, er yð og úd å æ ø í æ å?

    … and lenited some more. A æ ú å æ ø í æ å, er I å ú å æ ø í æ å?

  72. David Marjanović says:

    Chrt zdrhl z Brd.

    tl;dr

    [ˈtl̩d̥ʀ̩]

  73. Don’t Eat My Blain?

  74. John Cowan says:

    GT is helpless with Prskl, zvrhl smrk, strhl drn, mrskl drn v trs chrp, except that it thinks the second phrase means “whistling smurf”.

    No comments on the business negotiation all in vowels? I assume the first speaker eventually bought the product, since it seemed to be what he wanted; the seller’s obvious annoyance would be alleviated by the money.

  75. Lars Mathiesen says:

    Trond: eru yðreruð ér I think, yðr is oblique. But yes, I picked two wrong forms initially, 2du nom pronoun and 1pl verb.

    (Danish had I / Eder as polite nom/obl 2pl and later 2sg until we changed to De / Dem, now it’s I / jer — uppercase ostensibly for distinction against the preposition, but I’m sure some people are happy it looks a bit more polite too. Swedish has ni / er).

    And actually the case system was fighting a rear-guard action long after most of the non-initial vowels had fallen, so I’m not sure your order is historically correct (as opposed to pedagogically). Da til hånde, Sw till handa with old plural genetives are fossilized but still current.

  76. Trond Engen says:

    Yoy’re right that I meant it pedagogically, starting from common Norse changes before honing in on Jutlandic, and also treating processes that probably overlapped as independent, so it’s not historically correct, and I regretted that after posting. I also didn’t check my facts thoroughly. You can do only so much when you are in a meeting pretending to respond to an urgent e-mail.

  77. David Eddyshaw says:

    I’d do a Western Oti-Volta one (similar levels of interrelatedness to Romance and Germanic), but it would be a bit like Bilbo’s “What have I got in my pocket?” And it would involve too many goats.

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